User talk:Nidonocu/Page 2

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Hi there - I noticed your recent edits, welcome to WikiFur!

You mention that you moved the FurryMUCK logo to the bottom to put it in a "safer location" - was this because you feared it would be vandalised, or because it was not showing up correctly, or something else?

Also, hi to a fellow widget-maker! I work at Stardock, myself. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 14:01, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Furry MUCK Logo

Thanks for the welcome. :) I moved the logo at Markus's request since he was having trouble with the TOC not liking where it was. It was either a case of the logo staying where it was but being made an image, or moving it to where the <pre>'ed text wouldn't damage the layout. -Nidonocu 14:14, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Aha! I have a third option - move the TOC to the section below. You can use __TOC__ to specify TOC positioning (or __NOTOC__ to remove it entirely, but we need it here :-). Will see if I can figure out a good way to do that. --GreenReaper^(talk) 14:35, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Seems it was already using it, but not forcing a clear section below the float. I've adjusted it now and it should work for him (I have the same resolution here at work, so I can see the difference). --GreenReaper^(talk) 14:53, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Policies

I agree we need to set up some policies - deletion, featuring and the like. Right now we are trying to be as inclusive as possible becuase there's really no harm in having articles that are only mildly related to furry topics, but it's something we'll probably have to look at going forward. For now, don't be too worried if you see something that doesn't seem to fit with the wiki's purpose - we can always do a cleanup later. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 15:54, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Might I suggest creating a 'dubious' template then to help us flag articles that need writers to find more proof of their 'furryness' and at a later date, give us a handyway of tracking down things to go on deletion lists. ;> The closest wikipedia tag I'd say would be Wikipedia:Template:Unencyclopedic, to us of course, anything not furry related is Unencyclopedic.

That is a big "of course". I would be wary about limiting the scope of the wiki in that respect. Topics that are only tangentially furry may still be of interest to WikiFur readers and it might well be that there is stuff that can be said about the topic that relates to the furry fandom, and which would not be accepted in the "right" place. Obviously there are cases where links should be converted into links to Wikipedia and the like, but that is not always the case.

Likewise, we could do with getting Wikipedia:Template:Advert for pages which are clearly adverts for furry sites and need turning in to articles. Infact.. I was about to list a few more but realised we could do with importing quite a few of the templates. Would you mind if I did so and made changes where needed? I'll also make some wikifur: namespace pages if needed with info and so on about them and how to use. -Nidonocu - talk 16:04, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Go ahead - be bold! But also, be somewhat wary that you do not bite newcommers by telling them that their contributions are not wanted. If you can see a way to expand the from (say) a stub about an unrelated technology to an article about how the technology is used in the furry community, with links to articles in more depth over on (say) Wikipedia, then that would be more appropriate.

Note that you can theoretically use wikicities templates with this method: {{Wikicities:Advert}}. However, if you have time I would import the template as there have been problems with this - most notably it is case-sensitive!

I disagree with the use of the Unencyclpediaic template because I think it imposes strong an opinion on something that is a matter of opinion - there's been a lot of discussion about it. The Advert one sounds fine, because it is a more obvious statement about the quality of an article. --GreenReaper^(talk) 16:22, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Very well, I'll get going and take on what you've said. :) More fun than staring at Recent Changes. o.O I'll send some links your way when I've made a few up. -Nidonocu - talk 16:33, 18 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Subpages for Project/Wikifur Namespace

Heya, I'm close to finishing my work with the templates. :) However, I wanted to make the one page I have now (Wikifur:Boiler Plate Text) become an introduction page (similar to this one on Wikipedia) and have multiple pages for different template types as Subpages. However, it seems this feature isn't set to allow them in the Project(Wikifur) namespace. Would it be possible for you to turn them on? I don't know how it works with Wikicities but on standalone wiki's, its a setting in LocalSettings.php. Many thanks. :) -Nidonocu - talk 14:59, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the problem is - I was able to make Wikifur:Boiler Plate Text/Test just fine (deleted it now). Am I misunderstanding what you were trying to do? If so, please tell me exactly what pages you were trying to make/edit and what error message you got. --GreenReaper^(talk) 17:26, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Subpages, making a link of [[/All Templates]] on the page you wish to have as the parent should save to be 'parent/All Templates'. However, its actually just gone and made /All_Templates. If it was a true subpage, it should have a little breadcrumb link auto inserted, like on this page of my wiki here: http://nidonocu.technoweyr.co.uk/ewiki/index.php/User:Nidonocu/Management_Links

-Nidonocu - talk 18:40, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Ahh, right, so it's this - OK, I'll ask. --GreenReaper^(talk) 19:02, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Thanks --Nidonocu - talk 19:05, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Should be done. --GreenReaper^(talk) 19:17, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Yeap! All good! Many thanks! :D --Nidonocu - talk 19:18, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Delete Craziness

I'm worried administrators are going a bit crazy with the delete button. I'm seeing alot of Deleted articles on Recent Changes and I think the wiki could do with inforcing the Wikipedia style of deletion. That everything needs to be listed before it can be removed. You can block a vandal right away fair enough but we could end up with possible subjects of writing being discarded just because a badly written stub was made. WikiFur:Speedy_Deletion should be finished soon, you can see how far I've got right now. I really think it would be wise to tell admins to list pages at least for an hour there before removing them, just to see if anyone chips in with content. Pahapse with some policies akin to Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators as they generally make good sense. -Nidonocu - talk 01:45, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Umm . . . I'm not quite sure you get the point of speedy deletes. Speedy deletes are for bringing articles that deserve to be deleted immediately to the attention of admins. If they already have their attention and are deleted, then that's perfectly fine.

If you look at the delete log, I don't agree with you that people are going crazy. Consider the "content" of the pages that are being deleted - almost all are either plain vandalism, personal attacks, or tests, all of which are valid for speedy deletion - which means deletion on site by admins, whether or not they're listed.

What you are perhaps thinking of is VfD, which is is the process for removing articles that (generally speaking) are considered not appropriate for a wiki. And, to be honest, I haven't seen too many of them, mostly because we are far more inclusive than Wikipedia at this time. Some have been shortened, like fur, because they duplicated Wikipedia information without added value, but other than that . . . --GreenReaper^(talk) 03:38, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Ah.. ok I think I see now. Its very late for me and this wiki has offically cramped by left hand with Ctrl+C/V'ing so I'll be brief. n_x; I did reflect the lack of VfD on the template page so yeah..

Thanks anyway for dealing with all my questions and comments. Just to say would it be possible if you could at some point soon put up links to Wikifur:Boiler Plate Text where it might be useful like on Help or Community. I might write up a few 'First Time Here?' or 'First Time Wikiuser?' pages if that would be helpful. Have written my first actual article though, NorthernFurs (UK)! Woo! ^_^ I will offically stop clicking Recent Changes and close my browser now. ;) Speak to you later. -Nidonocu - talk 03:56, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

It went great on the help page. Thanks for taking the time to do these. I just hope we won't have to use them too much. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 04:10, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Template suggestions

Just as an idea: {{contributor}}, a template that would be the first line of a page and say that the article is about someone who is also a frequent Wikifur. Just to be more neutral. Almafeta 12:43, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Good idea, I think I'll make it a two way link. So people who have an article in the main namespace can link to it from their User page nicely. -Nidonocu - talk 19:55, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

It is done! See the templates here and here! :D -Nidonocu - talk 23:55, 20 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Personal-article Template

Just noticed your new Personal-article Template. Would you like me to add it to the General section of Templates or Special? And is there anything I should mention about its use? --Nidonocu - talk 16:55, 21 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Already done those things, but thanks for noticing. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 17:00, 21 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Lizard is not a troll

Lizard is not a troll. I'll vouch for him. --Dmuth 16:28, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

He wasn't logged in with an IP and did one wierd troll like edit to a user page. Have to admit that looked fishy. ;) It was only one edit anyway and I'm not an admin so. o.- Even if I was, I wouldn't block without warning. --Nidonocu - talk 17:31, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's understandable. I should also point out that Lizard does not speak English has his primary language. That probably didn't help any. :-P --Dmuth 18:32, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Facts are still facts. :) Article cleanup comes after. ;) --Nidonocu - talk 18:35, 22 Aug 2005 (UTC)

How speedy is speedy?

I'm a bit at sea on this and since you wrote the templates and original page for Speedy Deletes I'll send it your way: Exactly how speedy are speedy deletes intended to be? Let's say I log in and see three pages are marked for Speedy Delete - should those be removed on sight, after some deliberation on the article's Talk page, or after some set period of time? (I'd imagine this would be a good question to be addressed in WikiFur's currently nonexistant Admin Deletion Guidelines...) Any insight would be appreciated. --Duncan da Husky 00:53, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I need to get those written up. ;) Or at least write up a policy and then have people edit it and vote on it before it becomes 'Policy', a la Wikipedia. Basically you should use common sense, review the edits and see if the reason stated for delete is true, check the article does have any past versions which contain content. Likewise read the article and see if it has any content or worthwhile value. It might need a little expanding and turning in to a stub than deleting. Finally, as with a recent mistake I made. If the article is about a person, check that a person with the same user name as the article wrote it. If so, move the content to their 'User:' page and leave a note about the fact the main namespace is for 'true' articles. That's.. all I think about for now. Hope that helps. :) -Nidonocu - talk 01:11, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Message from John "Monsignor" Conway

Monsignor Cortez is that you? You've attempted to thwart my plots in the past, BUT I WILL HAVE MY WAY! SA.com will be MINE to control, you cannot stop me, and you cannot stope my darkshade poison from securing my role in history. YOU HAVE NOT HEARD THE LAST OF MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Mmm.. no, its not. I'm just a wikitroll's worse nightmare. Someone with little to do, a full knowledge of MediaWiki and a love of the Revert button. Happy editing. ;) --Nidonocu - talk 02:43, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Administrator

Enjoy your new tabs! Try to use them sparingly. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 03:39, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Squee!!! :D :D :D *cough* Yes sir. :> --Nidonocu - talk 03:51, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Google Talk

I am also on Google talk: doug.muth@gmail.com --Dmuth 16:43, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Strokes and petting

Many thanks for schooling me on the polite way to create personal pages. I'm fairly inexperienced at Wiki stuff, and really appreciate it. Let me know if you think anything should be changed at tomhowling or Tom Howling. Cheers, --Tom Howling 22:43, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Looks great to me. :) Its always best to assume new users are just inexprienced rather than trying to make a mess. Even if it appears odd or strange like a possible troll action, cause they simply might not be aware of what they are doing. Assume Good Faith is the expression. Best of luck with your future articles. -Nidonocu - talk 01:02, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Promotion of Art site

I would like to be included in the artist section. I am still not sure if I can do that ( since that may be seen as Spamming) and how I would add a new article.

-Kat http://www.livejournal.com/users/catwoman69y2k

Hey there and welcome. :) Firstly, if you check out our Artists category, you'll see we have alot listed, all mostly with links to their sites. In some cases if the site is very popular, it too has its own article. Many of these articles too have been written by the people they are about. Here's a quick and easy guide to making your article:

First you need a link to start your article, you could do this on the Wikifur:Sandbox page, however since the article is about yourself, you could like to it from your User page. You user page is normally used for content such as contact details or your activities with in the wiki, I cite mine as an example. In this case you can add a box like you can see here on AX's user page. To do this:

1. Click your user page.
2. Click Edit.
3. Enter {{ContributorU|Name for your Article Page}} in to the edit box.
4. Click preview and see if it worked. If so, the red link to the 'article' should point to the edit page of your unyet created article. To check this without clicking it. Right-click the link (or Ctrl+click on a Mac) and choose Properties from the list. It will open a small box with the destination for the link.
5. Add any other content if you wish to your user page and then after Previewing and checking that is ok, click Save Page.
6. Now, click on your new link and it will take you too your new page complete with edit box ready. Start typing and bare in mind the following points:
   • The article should be written with an unbiast point of view in the third person. It should say what your site is about without giving its own opinion. It may however state opinions of other people as long as it says who those people are and why they think that.
   • The article may of course link to the site and any other relavent sites. These should be placed under a subheading of External Links.
   • You may link to whatever articles you wish inside the wiki with internal links. Be they pages that exist or don't exist yet. However, if you link to something which you think exists but it turns out red, do a quick search using the search box to see if you can find the article's real name. Then use a piped link if needed. If you come to the end of the text and want to have more internal links but find that you haven't used them within the body of your text, add them in a list under a See Also heading.
   • The opening paragaph should not be sub-titled and should give a brief overview of the article without requiring any context. ie: if someone comes from the internet randomly to the page, they should understand right away from reading that what it is about.
   • Since you said this is an article about yourself, you can add the reply template to the one you added earlier. Add {{Contributor|Your Username here}} near the bottom of the page to link back to your user page and talk page.
   • Finally, remember to categorise your page. You can find a complete list of categories by going to Special:Categories. To add a category listing, place a link anywhere in the page, though normally at the very bottom like this [[Category:Category Name]]. Add more links have more categories.
7. If everything is ok once you check the previews. Add a little comment like First Version to the summary box and click Save.

Hope this is all good. Have any more questions, just ask. :) I'll be online for a while more this evening. -Nidonocu - talk 02:34, 25 Aug 2005 (UTC)

1000 Articles

Heya :) Sorry about any cock-ups this morning on the front page, I had four hours sleep and got woken up by my PC complaining cause it couldn't get online due to our router crashing and I had forgotten to turn the speakers off. ;) Got it fixed, checked the site and it said 995 articles and well.. "Aii!! Gotta do something for the 1000!!" so made the little graphic and made that special template which we can use when we want to put an extra picture on the front page like for holidays and such. :) I then sat there with the counter on 999, an image upload, the new template page and the edit to the front page all sitting on ready to save as I didn't want anyone to see it early. And then.. the counter stuck and no one updated for a good hour. @_@ I even tried pushing it over myself with an article on Dragon Tails but it was clearly lacking a few characters and didn't budge. c_c Finally I fell asleep and got woken up about an hour later by a house mate. "Wha? Argh.." *refresh main page* '1000' "Yay!" *click-click-click* "Woo!" :D *collapses dead asleep again* x.z

Lets prepare a little more next time for 2000. ^^; I'll do some work tonight anyway on a possible new front page, give it a look maybe akin to WP with that nice little category bar and use expanding space where ever I can for size issues. :) --Nidonocu - talk 17:17, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

It's OK, I was just as annoyed at myself for missing out the link on the featured article to the actual featured article! The reason the counter didn't update is because the main page didn't update, and nor did any of the templates that use it - if you change the main page by a space or something and then preview it, you can see what it'll look like if you safe. Or, you can add &action=purge at the end of the URL for it.

And yes, we probably should be more prepared for 2000. Right now most of my time has been spent formulating policy, and I still have to write that article about WikiFur . . . it never ends! :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 17:28, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

One day it might. But then.. that would be boring. XD --Nidonocu - talk 17:37, 28 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Two Speedy Deletes

I was just checking through the All Pages listing for the WikiFur: namespace and it appears we have two Speedy Delete pages. WikiFur:Speedy Deletion (my own) and WikiFur:Speedy deletion created by Almafeta (the curse of case sensitivity strikes again). What should can be done about the latter one? --Nidonocu - talk 00:35, 29 Aug 2005 (UTC)

You can merge the two together and make one redirect to the other. Personally, I'd prefer the name "Speedy deletion", as that goes with all the other policies and guidelines, and in fact with most of the pages on WikiFur. Maybe it's just striking for you because you've been regularly using too many caps. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 00:40, 29 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Merge and updates complete, I've saved the instructions and the facts regarding empty articles needing deleting from the little d page, however copyright violations aren't exactly SpD material so I've removed that. If we start having many of them, I might make a copyright warning template if required asking people to rewrite it without copyright infringement. Also, all templates, template listing and other links are updated, old page will remain as redirect just in case. --Nidonocu - talk 14:48, 29 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Dwarf Fur Article

In regards to the Dwarf Fur article, I reserve my right to keep my LJ address out of it. There's no need to point any reference as to whole lit what torch first, and I prefer to keep my LJ as it is. The last thing I need is anyone to find out where I am and I'm forced to impose martial Friends-Only law.

And whether it's true or not, the said member who kept restoring the bit I don't want may have a personal vendetta against me. The article may be hate and cynically motivated.

While you are entitled not to have personal attacks, please note that this only goes so far - you cannot reserve rights you do not have. Specifically, if you make a public post on a public LiveJournal, you cannot expect people not to link to it in a relevant article, even if you don't like them doing so. If you have a journal that you only want friends to be able to read (or even that you don't want your enemies to read, or even find), then guess what - that's a friends-only journal! This is the Internet, after all; everything is public by default. If you don't want to be found, your journal should be friends-only - that's what the feature is there for.

I did personally remove the reference to your nationality and various other portions of that page because I felt they were not appropriate for that page (not relevant to that topic), and would have gone on the page about you, if anywhere. The rest, I don't know enough about the topic to comment on. If you feel the wording of a particular segment displays any kind of bias, I suggest you reword it so that it does not include that bias.

Speaking in the general case, if you wish to change the facts on a page, and that change is contended, you should gain consensus among those who care about the page that the removal of those facts would improve the article, on the discussion page. In this case, surely more than two people care about Dwarf Furs? Maybe you should ask them to contribute to the article as well, and link other, more relevant sites. Right now there are two main contributors, and it's not my job (or nidonocu's job) to pick sides in a topic we don't know about. --GreenReaper^(talk) 13:55, 29 Aug 2005 (UTC)

WikiFur:Help

Please don't delete this. It may not have any redirects, but it is the help link in the "you're making a new page" text. :-) --GreenReaper^(talk) 03:01, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Ok.. could you put a note on the talk page in case I forget or anyone else tries deleting it. o.O BTW, I've responded to your comments on WikiFur_talk:WikiFur_Central_Version_2#Comments with some queries, awaiting your reply. --Nidonocu - talk 03:07, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

1k image?

The 1000 articles image... what images did you use to make it? I recognize Zarla, Usagi Yojimbo, and Rabbits in Waistcoats... Almafeta 21:26, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Um.. I just grabbed a few images from our gallery really. Waistcoasts, Usagi, the reanimator flash and the Starfox Assult cover. Then screenshoted some of the article lists from the All Articles page and applied logo and additional text. Not bad after 4 hours sleep I feel. x.O --Nidonocu - talk 21:38, 31 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Where do they come from?

I'm wondering if it would be ok and within wikicity policy if we were to place a tracker of sorts on the front page. The only reason is cause I'm kind of curious about which pages on the net some of our trolls are coming from and where we are being talked about. ;) Aware there might be a few issues regarding this though. o.o; --Nidonocu - talk 02:46, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Actually, we already have that - the Webalizer stats include referrer stats, which I've used on several occasions. They're actually better than a tracker on the front page, as sites often deep-link to particular pages (most of those at the top of the popular pages were linked from elsewhere). --GreenReaper^(talk) 03:34, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

*returns from reading and grins* You need an award of some sort for the amusing panic you caused PA and the retorts on a certain someone's LiveJournal. ^_^ --Nidonocu - talk 04:20, 2 Sep 2005 (UTC)

hosting of images on tripod

Remember that this may not be their image to host. They can link to it just fine, though . . . if you remove that link, and they don't have rights to host the image, what're they meant to do to replace it? --GreenReaper^(talk) 07:56, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

True.. I suggest we have it so people can easily copy paste the link though, make the URL nowiki. --Nidonocu - talk 18:11, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Why not just right-click, copy link/shorctut? That seems even easier to me . . . --GreenReaper^(talk) 18:25, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

If a user accidentally clicks the link without reading ahead.. Um.. what I did. It jams their cache with the 'image hosted on Tripod' logo instead of the actual image and some people might not known how to fix that. I'm popping the link back now with some more noticible instructions and the URL to highlight-copy as well as right-click, copy target location. --Nidonocu - talk 18:30, 4 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Personal contact information?

Seeing as the administrators have no problem allowing the personal phone contact information of Sibe's family, my question is will the administrators be posting their personal contact information? After all, it is only fair to share your information if another user has theirs and administrators continuously allow the information.

I await full addresses of all your mothers, fathers, and yourself including phone number, area code, and any previous problems.

PS: No, I'm not a Sibe fan. I just think it's absolutely disgusting this site is trying to present itself as a refrence of the furry community yet allow for people to openly circulate contact information. Sibe may not object, but I do.

The issue I'm afraid is that we do not censor content that is public information and can be easily found through simple means. In this case, a criminal record is public information, by committing a crime, such information as you've listed becomes public domain. I've committed no crime, so none of my information is required to be public. However, if I had prior posted personal information to the web (such as say, my real name) and it could be easily discovered through a Google search, I would have no trouble with someone posting it here.

Finally, we are not hosting the information, we are simply linking to it. While we might sometimes remove links to peoples personal LiveJournals at the LJ owner's request, we don't hide links to quite public locations and information sources. If anything, please complain to Google Newsgroups about the information on display, not us. --Nidonocu - talk 02:39, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Considering the trouble they've apparently had tracking Sibe down, it's quite probable that the information that the user mentioned isn't current anyway. Sibe's past criminal record is both public information and relevant to the assertions in the article, which are serious ones and require evidence for their verification by other parties. We try to ensure that the information on here is accurate, because to do otherwise could be libellious, but we make no further guarantees about what content we choose to include or not include, or what websites we link to.

Ultimately, the WikiFur community (which is simiar to the wider furry community, though not identical) decides whether something is relevant and appropriate to have or not, subject again to the terms of use which rightly prevently libellious statements and the like. A significant proportion of the community doesn't appear to like Sibe very much, some reasons for which might become apparent when you read the article, and that is reflected by the way in which users refuse to allow the removal of information that demonstrates why they don't like him. Admins are here to enforce the consensus of the community, not to overrule them. --GreenReaper^(talk) 04:14, 6 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Testing by Nidonocu

This is a test, don't touch this thanks. --82.38.235.8 14:52, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Like.. yes, that was testing to get my own IP address, leave it be. --Nidonocu - talk 14:53, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Are you sure you don't have a floating IP addy, like me? Additionally, I think you could have signed and used preview to get your IP without saving the page (it's only a little bit of space, yeah, but every little bit adds up). Almafeta 15:06, 9 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I have cable so its very fixed. ;) I also needed it saved so I can remote access my network from my friends right now. *grin* --Nidonocu - talk 03:33, 10 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Dracten HL2 Mod

In response to your request for me writing a page on the anthropomorphic Half Life 2 mod, Dracten, I would be honored to do so. Any opportunity to serve the Fandom. Though I have not created a page and I am not very familiar with the intricacies of the editing process, but I will try my best to promote the mod. I could also get you in touch with the mod admin if you want he probably could provide more details. Solidarity, --Pazyryk the Great 23:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)