Talk:Crusader Cat

Crusader Cat is editing his own WikiFur page to obfuscate the fact that he has admitted to sexual abuse of animals. He has written his article to hide the fact that the reason furries are angry with him is not because he is a Christian, but rather that he is using his religious beliefs to project his crimes onto others not guilty of his sin of animal rape.--150.131.162.41 17:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Controversial claims must not only be well sourced, but when it is about a person, there must be a good argument why the information should be made public. Just because something is true doesn't necessarily mean it belongs here. If you wish to continue your efforts to include the information in the article, please register an account to do so. --mwalimu 16:28, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely! Unfortunately, Crusader Cat has deleted the Adobe Acrobat PDF file from his FurAffinity account where he describes, in graphic detail, of sexually abusing his pets. Before Crusader Cat deleted his PDF file confessing animal sexual abuse from FurAffinity, I saved it to my computer. I would be happy to expose all supporting documents of Crusader Cat's confession of sexually abusing his pets if you would kindly link to me a document describing how I might upload these documents directly to WikiFur.

I not only have that PDF file saved to my computer as evidence of his crime, but the video I sourced in Crusader Cat's article, that you deleted, shows Crusader Cat confessing to molesting his pets. Anyone reading this, interested in watching Crusader Cat admit to sexually abusing his pets, can go through the history of the Crusader Cat article and find the video sourced in a previous version of the article of Crusader Cat confessing to sexually abusing his animals.

The integrity of WikiFur is at stake when people guilty of serious crimes can produce false articles depicting themselves as clean, moral, and decent people. A false "Crusader" who is actually more guilty of the crime of animal sexual abuse than most all furries should never be tolerated to hide his past. How would you like it if a criminal donned the title "crusader" and then came to your social group commanding you and your friends to repent of a crime none of you had committed -- but he had? That is what is happening here, and Crusader Cat is exploiting WikiFur as the source of documentation of the furry fandom to whitewash his past. Crusader Cat pretends like those who disagree with him hate him for being a Christian when the reality is that he is hated because he sexually molested his pets and then approached furries as a saint offering forgiveness when he is the one who needs forgiveness for his detestable crime of animal rape.

No one should be allowed to use WikiFur as a platform to produce a sparkling clean article about themselves when reality is quite different. No one should be allowed to drum up support for a cause, when they themselves are in gross violation of the cause they purport to represent without exposure of the facts of their past crimes. No one guilty of serious crimes should use WikiFur to falsely portray themselves as a pious angel of religious indemnity while feigning innocence and condemning others. The truth is that those people Crusader Cat claims are "haters of Christianity" are, in actuality, angry of Crusader Cat's sexual abuse of animals followed by falsely accusing others guilty of his crime while pretentiously wrapping himself up in a cloak of holiness.

Again, I would be happy to expose all supporting documents of Crusader Cat's confession of sexually abusing his pets if you would kindly link to me a document describing how I might upload these documents directly to WikiFur. Why should a animal molestor, such as Crusader Cat, be allowed to make himself a sparkling clean article of himself as a Crusader against sexual abuse without exposing his own past as a animal abuser? Seems to me, Crusader Cat is more guilty of the crime of animal sex abuse than most of the furries he condemns. -- 150.131.162.175 20:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Just tell me, who are you on FA? Assuming of course your a furry and not a troll. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crusader Cat (talk • contribs) .

I support including this information here.

Crusader Cat has written this article in order to show himself in the best possible light. This is human nature and is to be expected. However, WikiFur should not be used for whitewashing one’s past. CC is disliked by many due to his sexual abuse of animals, and while CC claims that he is disliked for being Christian, the real reason for many peoples dislike should be shown.

To 150.131.162.175, please create an account here and start the process of formally adding this information. I did not save CC's PDF file. 173.45.201.98 11:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Additionally: I would like to point out that CC has responded to 150.131.162.175 on FA. I can only assume he presumes FA a better venue for the discussion.

"Stop wasting your time, the admin there are not retarded and aren't going to fall for your tricks. What you are doing is illegal, immoral, and cowardly. People have tried this to me before and their IP's got banned, Yours will too soon and all hope of doing anything there will be gone for good."

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/788774/

173.45.201.98 11:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I am hated because I am a Christian, much of the hate mail I received was from people who had no knowledge of what I have done. Check the link and you will see that there is no recorded message of someone getting angry with me because of mistakes I made. I wrote this article to portray myself in the most neutral possible light. This article was altered to portray myself in the worst possible light. the Admins knew this and that's why they called him out on it. It is well within my right to respond to the other guy through other mediums (assuming he's on FA) and is not the busness of the admins here. Thus, this new information is just as useless as the previous information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crusader Cat (talk • contribs) .

We at Wikifur make an effort to be good neighbors in the furry community. A part of that deals with how we handle derogatory or controversial information about people. Most if not all of us have done things in that past that are less than admirable; we are not about digging up dirt on people. Our policy on such information is that in order for it to be allowable on the site, first, we hold it to a higher standard of verifiability than most other information on the site, and second, that a good case can be made that it is in the public interest of furry fandom that this information be made public.

The claim has been made that Crusader Cat has sexually abused animals in the past. I have not reviewed the evidence enough to form an opinion of whether that's true, but even if it is, I'm not convinced it belongs here. I will review the available information later on (I can't do it right now because I'm at work and my employer blocks access to a couple of the websites where the information resides). If this appears to be something that he is currently practicing and advocating, I might be convinced to change my mind, but if it's only past transgressions or questionable accusations we're talking about here, I probably won't. (Disclaimer: This is one admin's opinion; other admins may have differing views on how best to handle this situation.)

By the way, I'm a furry Christian and I've never received any hate mail because of it. --mwalimu 17:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

The reason I believe the information should be included is CC's desire to claim persecution solely for being Christian. Whereas many dislike him for what he's done in the past (and claiming other furries do). Thank you for your professionalism, by the way, not every 'Christian' is willing to listen to reason in situations where an evangelical is arguing against others. --173.45.201.98 23:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

While the claim itself is true, the recent edit by this person was created in such a way to create a mental slant against me. When you have the time, check out the youtube video or the essay on furtopia. I myself have admitted here on Wikifur that I have had struggles with bestiality, that's all anyone coming here needs to know, they don't need to know the nasty details of what I have done, if they can then they can easily check the links provided. Nor do the people coming here need to know the ins and outs of what I have said in the essay (i.e. telling exactly what segments of the video in witch I am making a claim) Also, the claim that many people hate me for what I have done is inaccurate. Very few people got angry because of this, and this person is obviously one of them. Once again, check the link and see that there is no evidence that I have documented which makes mention of zoophile bashing hate messages. While I am currently struggling with bestiality, I am not practicing, and I am most definitely not advocating it (as you will see by reading the essay). I am glad to find that you also are a Christian, and envy you for the peace you have experienced among the fandom. Presumably, God has called you as a witness to someone else other than furries so you are not actively involved in trying to bring more furrs to Christ. That being said, it is understandable if no other furrs have persecuted you, I hope your association with me will not bring any undeserved hatred on you. I trust and pray that you and the other admins will make a wise decision. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crusader Cat (talk • contribs) . -- confirmable at http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Crusader_Cat&action=history 18:36, 18 June 2009 Crusader Cat

I have a question, Crusader Cat. If you have nothing to hide about your criminal past as you claim, why have you attempted to blank the mere discussion of your user article (the page you are reading right now) multiple times? Check the history ( http://furry.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Crusader_Cat&action=history ) of this page ( Talk:Crusader Cat ) for proof of your attempts to blank this page four times. --150.131.162.92 21:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Now that I've had a chance to review both YouTube videos on my own time, I stand by what I said earlier. Referring to Crusader Cat's past acts as a "criminal past" is questionable at best and putting a pejorative spin on it at the minimum. I could say a lot more but there are better places for it than a Wikifur talk page. At this time I see no reason to include any more negative statements about CC than what he has included on his own. --mwalimu 03:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I was not aware that this needed to remain up for historical reasons. After seeing it re uploaded several times, I was told by one of the other admins here that It had to stay up, now that this drama is basically over I might be deleted again (unless the admins say other wise). what you posted here is no different from the other times people come here to harass me, thus I did not feel it belonged here. But since it apparently does, it can be a record of your bias and hatred toward someone who is just doing what his God asked of him.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crusader Cat (talk • contribs) .

CC, please remember to indent responses and sign them. Four tilde's will do it. Also, it is generally considered bad form to clear discussions, especially considering as this discussion has been civil, despite what you claim. Leaving this discussion will show that the issue has been brought up and discussed. 173.45.201.98 12:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how to indent. This discussing has been anything but civil from your end. Civil people don't do the sick things you have done to get revenge on me. You still didn't tell me who you were on FA, assuming you have an account there.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crusader Cat (talk • contribs) .

You never asked me, I found this from your own page. /My/ FA user name is Irbisgreif. I don't know who 206.127.78.65 is. Perhaps if you noted styles this would have been obvious, as I have made no effort to hide who I am. 173.45.201.98 21:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Use colons to indent. You should know that I, 206.127.78.65 16:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC), am different from 173.45.201.98. There are at least two people on this page other than you and the moderator. Know that I consider you very lucky -- and sheltered -- for an animal molester who has openly admitted to trying to get your kittens to "lick" your genitals and many other bad things you did to your kittens that, you admit, made them decide to scratch you for (I still have that PDF file, remember).

It's not that fact that you are a Christian that makes me angry. I know many Christians who are decent people. I like them.

The fact that you molested animals makes me very angry, but that alone is not enough to make me want to chase you to the ends of the Earth, since you have found Jesus and are no longer molesting animals. If religion keeps you from sexually abusing animals, I'm very grateful for Christianity's existence, indeed. However, the fact that you are projecting your animal abuse onto other people who haven't done things that you have done, just makes me want to hate-kill you.

Here's how the argument went over at Furaffinity:

Crusader Cat: I was abusing animals before I found furotica. Furotica makes me happy in my pants, and furotica makes me want to abuse animals. I have abused animals, and I like furotica (and I associate the shame I feel when I abuse my pets with furotica), but Jesus has set me free, so all you furries should repent before you end up like me!

Furries: Hey, idiot! We don't find real animals arousing in the same way we don't find retarded people arousing. We haven't molested animals like you have done, nor are we compelled to. Stop projecting your sins onto others.

Crusader Cat: Stop hating me because I'm a Christian! I'm going to go make a WikiFur article about myself how I told the furries to repent of their heathen animal molesting ways and then how they attacked me because I'm a Christian. Oh, AND I'll leave out all the details about how I molested my pets to make myself look like a saint.

If molesting animals makes you angry, than give me what I deserve (Personally, I would go for Exodus 22:19) But if you don't want to do that, then at least report what I have done, since ti's illegal in America. Religion doesn't keep me from what I did, Jesus does. I am not projecting what I did on to anyone else because they didn't do what I did. I am saying don't do what I did, and people get angry for it for no reason at all. If you met someone who was a drug addict and he beat the habit, and went around speaking to encourage others not to make his mistake, would you get angry at him like he did to me? Or would you get angry at someone who called him a junky and make fun of him for his past? The Vast majority of the hate messages I received were either from people who had no idea of what I did, or didn't care. If someone calls me a filthy cat fucker, then I don't nearly mind it as much as other comments I received, because I know they have a good reason to call me that. The only honest part of that discussion is the first line (written in the wrong format, but that's just the play write in me) No one thought I was stupid for making connections like that, they were either pissed that I was asking them to come to Jesus or discussed at what I had done. This is a very pathetic staw man and is the latest in the train of lies against me. I wrote this article after I came back from Anthrocon last year, it contained no mention of what I did because I didn't admit it publicly yet. I wrote it so if someone asked about me and I didn't have time, I could just tell them to check me out here. There was nothing wrong with the way I wrote it (except for a few spelling errors) It was from an unbiased POV which is what it's supposed to be, if it was written to make me look like Billy Graham, then the Admis would have taken care of it. I left the nasty details because I wanted it to be G rated. They don't need to find the nick nacks here, if they want them then they can just as easily look up the video I provided. When I say I struggle, I mean that I'm fighting the urge, Most of the time I win, but in some cases, I lose. That's what struggle is. If I was simply resisting, then It wouldn't be a struggle. The hole drama surrounding this article was that details about what happened here placed here without any other purpose than presenting me in a negative light instead of a neutral light.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crusader Cat (talk • contribs) .

"Bla Bla Bla Bla" LISTEN! You are rejected, not because you are a Christian, but because you are an animal molester using religion to condemn others innocent of your criminal activity. Even furries into furotica are not going to sexually violate their pets. Adult human beings can give consent for sexual intercourse regardless of how kinky their sex lives are. Most adult furries -- even furries into furotica -- have sex with humans. We human beings prefer sex with other human beings. The furries who have sex with beasts are ostracised by the furry community.

Unfortunately, Crusader Cat, furotica is going to attract people who want to sexually violate animals into furry fandom. Read: ANIMAL MOLESTERS LIKE YOU. Animal molesters, like you Crusader Cat, are an evil minority that, unfortunately, exists in the furry community -- as long as they don't identify themselves to other furries. As soon as animal molesters identify themselves, they get tossed out on their ass. It is noteworthy fact that if you, Crusader Cat, hadn't used the "God bandaid" to excuse your animal molestation -- "Oh, I believe in Jesus now, so it's okay" -- you would have found yourself thrown out of the furry community with the rest of the trash.

Crusader Cat, because you have sexually abused your animals, you are more of a sick bastard than 99.99% of the Furry community, and have no more credibility than a child molester going down to the nearest public shopping mall and telling everyone there to repent of pedophilia. You are detested by even those who are only tempted to sexually abuse animals, because you took your sick fantasy into reality and molested actual animals -- multiple times.

Yes, yes, all us furries are glad that you have found Jesus and are no longer molesting your pets. Please take your exuberance elsewhere. You need to acknowledge that you are a sick bastard who has sexually abused your pets and that most people, even most furries -- even most furries into furotica -- have no interest in sexually violating their pets. The only furries who sexually abuse their pets are furries like you, Crusader Cat, and the rest of us human beings detest furries like you. -- 150.131.162.59 15:39, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Admittedly, your article admits that you "struggle with bestiality", but that statement seems to confer that you are just resisting temptation -- not that you have actually given into your urges and have actually abused your pets, which you have done. Anyway, it's a moot point now, the mods have made their decision to let you get away with your article as it is. Just color me not impressed. -- 206.127.78.65 16:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm just trying to understand the disagreement here. Since the video is still up on Youtube, I'm assuming you don't mind your fetishes being public, just that the IPs aren't putting it into the right context or they are doing editorializing of their own? --Rat 22:55, 20 June 2009 (UTC)